Barack blows it

by alvic63, Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:27:09 PM EST

Barack Obama just undercut the entire Democratic Party's line of attack for the general election in one fell swoop. In talking about facing voters in this primary cycle and the general election, Obama explained that in electing any of the candidates the policies of the Bush years will be behind us.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/4/20/ 162058/776

Thus, anyone designing ads featuring the McSame line of attack should get back to the drawing board.

I was never fully convinced that tying McCain to the Bush Administration would be the most effective route, but I guess because of Obama I will never find out.




Tags: Obama McCain Bush (all tags)

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Hardly as much praise (2.00 / 2)

as the Clintons had been heaping on him.


Because I wont trade humanity for patriotism!
by Drewid on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:29:46 PM EST

you kidding? (2.00 / 2)

it's always, when he blows it, she's worse?  She has never said McCain would be better than Bush, she's never said he'd be better than Barack, she only said he has experience, not the kind that helps in her opinion, but real experience, he's a real war hero, and Barack's lack of experience will be highlighted if he runs against McCain. She's always said the one of the two of them must win, for the sake of the nation, the two of them being Barack and her, not Barack and McCain.  It sounds like he is telling his supporters that it's okay to vote for McCain, cause at least he's better than Bush. I know one previous Obama voter who will vote for McCain, cause he found out more about Obama during that debate.  This is ether a rookie mistake, or it's a sign he knows he's losing and he wants hr to lose too. you pick?  


by anna shane on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:43:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack blows it (2.00 / 2)

Sorry, Clinton already takes the cake for giving McBush a helping hand. Let us not forget how she thinks he's qualified to CIC. Nice try though. Isn't this one from Rove's play book, accuse the other candidate of what you your self are doing.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Bill Clinton
by venician on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:32:40 PM EST

as usual (none / 0)

his supporters defend him by saying she's the same and worse. That sounds so elementary school.  How's that going to work if he's running against McCain, McCain's better than Bush but he's better than McCain???  Not a very strong message.  


by anna shane on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:45:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He wants unity (2.00 / 1)

Unity with the Republicans.


by catfish1 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:35:42 PM EST

Re: He wants unity (2.00 / 2)

That's funny coming from someone who's candidate meets with SCAIFE, and who's husband goes on Rush Limbaugh's show, and talks politics with CARL ROVE.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Bill Clinton
by venician on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:40:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Trying to be all things to all people (2.00 / 2)

is different from being willing to debate your adversaries.

If you want to believe we're in a world where conflict doesn't exist, you do the former.


by catfish1 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:45:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

she met with them (2.00 / 1)

but they endorsed your guy, aren't you proud?  


by anna shane on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:46:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He wants unity (none / 0)

If your candidate wins and actually plans to deliver on his whole unity schtick, then prepare yourself to see him engaging in far worse behavior in order to get republicans to support his proposals.


by PegLeg on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:32:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

NO WAY (2.00 / 1)

am I going to fall for that one..


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Without a REAL committment to it, we WON'T win in November.
by architek on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:41:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lots of different factors.. (1.50 / 2)

I think that Bush has been one of the worst Presidents this country has ever seen, and its not over yet.

It would be a challenge for McCain to be as bad except for one thing, the economy now for most people is in FAR worse shape than it was in 2000, and many people's resources are GONE. For them, staying the course means its over for them. Whatever chance they might have had for turning things around and rejoining the middle class are slipping away. Millions of people are in this situation, both Dems and Republicans. Thats why Obama's hollow 'change' message resonates as it does. People are desperate.

So, really, the situation DEMANDS a huge change, whether it be Dem. or Republican who takes over.

Thats why I am voting for Hillary. Obama's policies are just too conservative, and they seem designed to protect the vested interests that have gotten us into this. Obama is about as good as it could get for them.

If you have 3/4 of the pie NOW, you don't want real change. Thats why so much big money is flowing to Obama. He's an insider and a player, far more than Hillary.  

Don't forget, the GOP has been running Washington for a long time, not the Clintons. And Obama is a GOP lover's "Democrat"


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Without a REAL committment to it, we WON'T win in November.
by architek on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:40:09 PM EST

Re: Lots of different factors.. (2.00 / 2)

Obama's "big money" is coming from small donations. Over ONE MILLION people have contributed to his winning campaign. Hillary is funded by Corporate interests and..... who knows else?


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Bill Clinton
by venician on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:43:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

he'll be worse (2.00 / 1)

cause he's got a head start from Bush, and he only has to keep things going to make it much worse.  it's in free-fall, and not stopping it will make it grow exponentially?  (Did I spell that right?)  If Bush were running against McCain in 2000, Bush would be worse, maybe, but it's 2008 and McCain has the unique opportunity to take failed policies and carry them to even more disastrous consequences.  


by anna shane on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:49:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lots of different factors.. (none / 0)

"Thats why so much big money is flowing to Obama. He's an insider and a player, far more than Hillary.  "

Big money??? 1.35 freaking million people??? Big money??? Stop the god damn lies, already! An insider??? Hillary Clinton received more donations from the military complex lobbyists than any other candidate from both parties. You wanna talk insiders? Bring it on.


by hania on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:51:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack blows it (none / 0)

I don't think saying that any of the three nominees would be better than the worst president in US history is a bold statement. It's pretty much a given. What we're framing is McCain's policies and his temperament. Both of which are better than Bush's.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:42:15 PM EST

Re: Barack blows it (2.00 / 1)

Good: Both Democrats would be better than John McCain and George W. Bush
Okay: All three of the current candidates would be an improvement over George W. Bush.
BAD: John McCain would be preferable to my Democratic opponent.
If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:43:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack blows it (none / 0)

I am finding it pretty challenging to follow your line of reasoning.

I never thought tieing Mccain to Bush would work , because I personally don't think of him that way.

But Obama just undercut what he has been saying for a while now not to talk about the dnc


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:56:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack blows it (none / 0)

No, he has been saying McCain's presidency would be a continuation of Bush's policies. And it would be.

What it would probably NOT be is a continuation of arrogant, conniving politics that debase not only American politics, but America in general. And thank the Lord that nobody nominated a candidate who have that sort of arrogant, snide narcissism that it has become evident George Bush possesses in spades.

So why make that distinction? You said it yourself. You don't think McCain is comparable to Bush. And most people think that way because McCain is a pretty nice guy. When he speaks about wanting to move beyond petty politics, I believe him just as much as I do Obama. It is absolutely imperative that we separate that personality and rhetoric from his record and what he has said he will do in office.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 06:07:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack blows it (none / 0)

Ugh, I really have to start proofreading more... good.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 06:08:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack blows it (2.00 / 3)

I think you're really reaching here, and I'm a Clinton supporter.


by bobbank on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:55:58 PM EST

no, it's truly dumb (none / 0)

Everyone who thinks McCain is a good guy may think from what Barack said that things would get a little better under McCain, and things are so out of control a big break must be enforced, some really effective governing has to take place to slow the bush disaster.  Plus, many of Barack's supporters originally polled they had a hard time choosing between Barack and John, and John polls very high with the youth vote. It's dumb, or he's thinking that if he loses to Hillary he can throw it to McCain without saying so directly and then be positioned to run again in 12.  Mostly it looks daffy, even if he thought it's true (and it isn't true, Bush's policies must be reversed not just slowed) it's a bad thing to say.  I assume he knows PA will be a blow out and that his chances for the nom are growing more remote.  She blasted him on it already.  


by anna shane on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:54:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no, it's truly dumb (none / 0)

Are you telling me that McCain polls even close to Obama in the youth vote category?  I would need to see some data to accept that.  Sounds hard to believe, though.

I do know that McCain pulls strong on pure Independents, and that's something that strikes me as more of an obstacle for Barack, because he does get a small but significant portion of his coaltion from that bracket.  (Hillary is not quite as strong with them, but much stronger with moderate Democrats, which seems like stronger ground against McCain - although both our candidates have viable paths to victory.)


by bobbank on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:13:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack blows it (2.00 / 3)

So, we're ignoring Clinton's comment about the CIC threshold now? This, at least, is far less pointed. He's saying Clinton's better than McCain, anyway.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:56:09 PM EST

Re: Barack blows it (none / 0)

because this is about Barack's statement and not his retort, if I'm bad she's worse?  


by anna shane on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:56:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack blows it (2.00 / 2)

Eureka!  Finally the quote that brings Obama down.  That's gold, Jerry, gold.


by rfahey22 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:57:33 PM EST

Re: Barack blows it (none / 0)

Yeah, Obama probably should not have said that "John McCain would be preferable to my Democratic opponent."


by Check077 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:58:17 PM EST

Re: Barack blows it (none / 0)

Are you being sarcastic? Sometimes I don't pick up on that. Because he didn't say John McCain would be better than Clinton, he said both he and Clinton would be better than McCain, but all three would be better than Bush.

Bush's awfulness was more than his policies, it was his demeanor and loads of other things. All three nominees would be better. And refusing to acknowledge that McCain is a better man than Bush is absurd and could easily lead voters to discard the message that McCain's policies are NOT better than Bush's.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 06:18:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack blows it (none / 0)

I guess you guys think because the pope's in town that one of these hail Mary pass's will finally be caught. Alas time is not on your side and neither is the MATH.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Bill Clinton
by venician on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 06:04:17 PM EST

Re: Barack blows it (2.00 / 2)

UMMMM I have foreign policy experience, John mcCain has Foreign policy experience, all HE has is a SPEECH.....not exactly helpful!


"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08
by feliks on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 06:17:56 PM EST

Re: Barack blows it (2.00 / 2)

Saying that someone would be better than Bush gives a LOT of latitude.  I mean, you can be pretty bad and still be better than Bush and it's very obvious that's what he's saying. Surely you don't think he thinks McCain would be OK. Oh, maybe you do. This will probably turn out to be finger-gate all over again.


by Becky G on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 06:40:17 PM EST

Re: Barack blows it (none / 0)

I hope the hyrbid sect of republican/hillary supporters keep bringing it up, this will only drive hillary's negatives to Bush numbers!


She and McCain are very close - Bill Clinton
by clintonmccain on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:13:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack blows it (none / 0)

No offense, but you're either much too general or an absolute fool. How do you imagine Obama is going to win without Clinton's supporters? She is holding just under half of the voters in this primary. Naturally, they must all be Republicans in disguise.

You might also be in for a nasty shock - last I heard Obama was looking for some sort of coalition, unity, etc. He's not going to be the liberal Jesus, here to enact all your fantasies. Get a grip.


by msharp on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:19:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama gets it right - once again (none / 0)

Barack Obama is the only honest person in the field and the only one making sense. He is stating the obvious again. Of course, everybody else is better than Bush - including McCain. I'll give a couple of quick clues: torture, climate change, and outrageous spending. Of course, McCain is dead wrong on foreign policy, taxes, health care, abortion, and justices. But if we want to be taken seriously by the American public, we have to be honest. This is the new kind of politics that you miserably fail to understand. You can bicker all you want for the next couple of weeks. After that your points will be irrelevant as Barack Obama will be on his way to become the next president.  


by hania on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:38:32 PM EST

Re: Obama gets it right - once again (none / 0)

The general point against McCain is fine - but Obama   as creator of a new type of honest politics - you're absurd. Obama is a politician, just like the rest. Why not stick to the issues rather than absorbing all the campaign rhetoric as if its insightful. Obama's campaign is using a strategy that has been successful, not only for himself in the past, but for others.


by msharp on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:13:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Saying someone would better than Bush (none / 0)

Is like saying I less murderous than Hitler or that someone would be less warlike than Ghengis Khan.  It is an extremely low bar...hell I would make a better president than Bush...drunk...with the flu...


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:42:55 PM EST


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